December 11, 2005

And the difference is....??

I hate the British press. The tabloids are so full of shit, the exaggerate every damn thing for the sake of a story. They are the reason I don't support England in football, rugby and cricket. They are so stinking biased it is ridiculous at times. That, and the fact that they are based in London and are biased towards the London teams.

I remember watching a game in a pub in Nottingham where I used to study, and that was the time when Arsenal were in the middle of their GREAT UNBEATEN RUN. The previous record was held by none other than Nottingham Forest (44 games I think). The guy, a local was furious over the hype that they were giving Arsenal who were at the time 40 games unbeaten. He was saying that when Forest were going on their unbeaten run, the press never made such a big hoo-hah about it the same way they made the fuss about Arsenal's.

Now, I seriously wonder what the fuck is the difference between Arsenal and Manyoo, and Wenger and Fergie. Arsenal have been great in Europe but shit in the league. Manyoo have been the other way around. Both haven't been playing anywhere near their best and not to their capabilities. Both have had ridiculous injury problems. Yet, it seems that Manyoo are in DEEP CRISIS but Arsenal aren't. Manyoo were ripped apart by the press (and Roy Keane) after Middlesborough cut them to shreds, but there wasn't such a furore over Arsenal's defeat to Bolton.

All of a sudden, it seems that Fergie is losing the plot. His supposed inability to replace our legendary midfield (and Roy Keane) was well documented. Supposedly, he made a lot of shitty signings and people aren't pleased with it. People say he's lost it. But if you look at Wenger, he has had problems replacing Arsenal's backline. We all know Pascal Cygan is not a footballer, and Kolo Toure (who incidentally started off no better than Cygan) has improved, but he is no Martin Keown, nevermind Tony Adams. Lauren is no where near Lee Dixon's quality in any case.

The press seems to laud Wenger over his supposed ability to buy unknowns and turn them into awesome players. Somehow, they also find it necessary to pick on Fergie for his supposed horrible signings. People seem to forget, both of them have had their fair share of good signings as well as poor judgement. For every Vieira, Van Persie and Ljungberg, there is also Stephanovs, Lhuzny and Grimandi. Similarly with Fergie, people seem to forget that besides Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson and Bosnich, there was also Schmeichel, Irwin and Cantona.

The problem with both teams now?

They are filled with players who are too young to have enough experience and players who are too old to do anymore running. Probably the only player in Arsenal who is the top of his game is Henry. Manyoo's situation is in that sense a little worse. We have players who are too young and players who are too old. Nobody is 27-28 years old except Van Nistelrooy, but he has been off form. Both teams are relying on boys to do a man's job.

Both teams are screwed at the moment. Crisis, no. Trouble, yes. The thing people fail to realise is that both teams have a VERY secure future.

Probably the most irritating thing out of all this is the armchair fans who have no idea how the game is played and how the game is run, and end up following the views of the biased English press. For an example, please refer to the comments section of the last few posts.


Bex said...

Well, the thing is, and in my opinion, the most successful teams get knocked down the most. The 90s BELONGED to Manchester United, and suddenly when they're not winning as much anymore, the press make a big deal out of it. The more success you achieve, the easier it is to bring you down.

It's the same case with Liverpool too, after losing to Crystal Palace, a side which we ALWAYS seem to lose to in the League Cup, the press were saying that Liverpool are in a crisis too, although of course, not to the extent which Man United are allegedly in. And when both Liverpool and Chelsea went through, I remember that the headline said, "The Reds JOIN CHELSEA in the last 16..." when LIVERPOOL were top of the group, so I guess what you said about the biasness towards London clubs is somewhat true.

You know, there is nothing you can do about it. Just read everything, laugh and wait until you get on some long winning streak. Then suddenly you'll be one of the best clubs in the world again.

Anonymous said...

Actually, there is one reason why people are talking about events at MU more than at Arsenal. The Glazer factor at MU has made people uncertain about how things are going to turn out there. If this had happened last season, nobody would be daft enough to say Fergie would be sacked. But most footie fans - even the expert pundits - are not sure how the Glazers will react to current events.

Remember how Ranieri got dumped by Abramovich? The Glazers might think it's time to put Fergie out to pasture and bring in a new big name. You just can never tell with those Yankees...

p.s. You're a Notts man? All right! :D

Unknown said...

Damn it! We are in crisis too! we're only in second spot! BUAHAHAHA!

Lord Vendetta said...

yea scousers, cuz we have clowns in our team - Djimi TakBoleh, Harry NoMoreFuel, and Jo-HaMi..


Anonymous said...

STFU lah Vincent.

Anonymous said...

ManUre are in deep crisis.

Did you forget the fact that they are 500 million pounds in debt compared to Arsenal, who are nowhere near that bad off financially and are moving to a new stadium next year?

If Arsenal are in trouble, Wenger has money to spend, on the other hand, if ManUre are in trouble, they are only edging closer and closer to bankruptcy. And you're not so "great" in the league yerself are you?

Plus Wenger is a million times better at spotting talent than Ferguson. Sure, he managed to sign some great players for tuppence early on in his career, but the last bargain he got was who exactly?

And for all Wenger's mistakes, they never cost as much as Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, sicknote Saha or Veron. Or even overhyped, useless, Cristina Ronaldo.

vincent said...

kopite : Maybe you should go read the last line of my article again you stupid armchair fan. Everything you read about the Glazers is logically untrue. Which idiot would spend all their money in an investment and then leave it to burn? The British hate Americans (as do most of the world) and that is why they keep talking shit about them. The Glazers may not be the nicest of people, but they are no where near as stupid as what everybody makes them out to be.

Wenger better at spotting talent? Are you blind? Did you not understand what I just said? Did you also know that people like Giggs and Beckham were plucked from Manchester City and Spurs? Fergie had been doing it for 10 years. Wenger is also great, no doubt, but like I said both of them have their fair share of mistakes. Overhyped? Reyes anybody?

Saying Fergie was wrong to buy 'sicknote' Saha only goes to show that you know nuts about football. Saha NEVER had any injury problems before he came to manyoo. That's just unlucky what happened to him. And Veron? I'll explain that in the next post.

Anonymous said...

Fergie's so called fledglings, were in fact the discovery of Brian Kidd, as any red blooded Man U fan would know. Of course they would also know that Mr. Kidd has since been ostracised by the grrrrrreat man himself, the ungrateful bastard....

The thing that he's good at is signing young players (and not so young ones) who are known to all to be on the verge of greatness... As in poaching la...

Roy Keane was touted as the next big thing when he was at Forest and Fergie signed him after they were relegated. Cantona wasn't that young, but he was bought cheap as a result of stupidity by then Leeds manager, Howard Wilkinson. Same goes to Andy Cole (correct me if I'm wrong was still in his early 20s), who bagged 30 plus goals for Newcastle and then buggered off to Old Trafford.

Ronaldo and Rooney are young talents "spotted" by Fergie, but even a shortsigted cum myopic patient can spot them from the top of Mt. Everest on a foggy day wearing an eye-patch. Oh and they were purchased at a price of a mere 37 million pounds, which is the more than the accumulative sum of Henry (10m), Van Persie (4.5m), Pires (6m), Ljungberg(4m), Gilberto(4m), Fabregas (free), Lauren (7m), Toure, Campbell (free), Ashley Cole (free) and Lehmann (free?). Holy smokes! That's our first eleven!

The only reason why Fergie enjoyed his successes were by and large due to the work of Brian Kidd who gave you the Becks, Giggs, the Nevillers, Scholes and Butt. Come on, that will NEVER happen again I can tell you that. Just look who passed through the ranks in recent years... O'Shea, Richardson and the best of all, Fletcher. No wonder Keano was pissed!

I'll give Fergie credit for discovering Ole I-dont-know-how-to-spell-his-surname though... Which is like one in a decade.

Anonymous said...

And GARY NEVILLE is the reason why Reyes has been no, Arsene didn't spot the wrong player, he was on form before his injury. Now we'll just wait for him to get his consistent form back.

vincent said...

naz : Not Brian Kidd. Credit goes to this guy called Jim Ryan and all the scouts of course. But in the end, its the manager who gets the end credit. I am sure Wenger didn't spot ALL of them, he trusted his scouts' assessment and maybe made a final decision. That is how it works.

Cantona was a pest at Leeds. And you are forgetting Irwin, Schmeichel, Stam (who was really an unknown), bringing back Sheringham...people like that. is ridiculous to say Campbell was free. They gave him a ridiculous wage to make up for his transfer fee. Surely u know that

sashi said...

Err.... not really wanting to jump in here, but, err, Stam wasn't quite unknown when he joined Utd. He was Dutch player of the year with PSV and did, after all, cost United some 10 million pounds.

And I very clearly remember the Sheringham saga. Cantona had just left, and Sheringham was a really big name and was conidered the player's player.

But back to the topic, all managers (like Houllier and Benitez too) make their share of transfer mistakes. It's the end results that matter, and Ferguson can be proud of his record compared to Wenger's.

Naz said...

Credit or no credit to manager, point is, Wenger takes a gamble on unknowns and the success ratio to failure is much higher to that of Fergie. Its fair to say that Wenger gambled on Henry who was fast proving to be a waste of space at Juve, Overmars who just got back from a career threatening injury, Petit who was a left back, Vieira who was languishing in Milan reserves and Van Persie, a problem child in Feyenoord. I don't think Fergie would have paid a single pound for the whole lot, would he?

I'm not denying Fergie's man management skills of course, which got the best out of Cantona (but on the flip side, his man management skills also has a less than desirable effect on players who become to big for the club). And yes, I left out Schmeichel and Irwin (sorry lah, can't remember fully Man U's history and where and when was Irwin signed from, btw?) but Stam is NOT of an unknown quantity. He was already a full-fledge Dutch International before he joined, and correct me if I'm wrong, won player of the year in the Dutch league prior to joining Man U. Sheringham was already an England international who was looking to fill up his bare trophy cabinet, so no points there mate!

BTW, its ridiculous to pay 30 million pounds for Ferdinand and gave him a ridiculous wage to make up for his lack of consistency. Surely u know that. (FYI, Campbell is on 80k while Ferdinand is above that and is aiming for 100k).

Naz said...

Sashi :

"Ferguson can be proud of his record compared to Wenger's"

Fergie's Transfer Turkeys - Veron. Djemba2. Kleberson. Forlan. Taibi. Bosnich.

Wenger's Transfer Turkeys - Cygan, Remi Garde, Grimandi, Richard Wright (if he keeps it up, Gilberto might end up here)

The difference is, with the exception of Wright (and potentially Gilberto), the rest were never meant to be a first team player, but more for cover (although Grimandi does have a cult following at Highbury). All the above for United were meant to be first teamers. I should also point out that Cygan et al was bought at less than 3 million (again, correct me if I'm wong coz I'm just relying on memory), whereas Veron alone.. well you all know lah...

And don't forget that Ferguson has almost 20 years experience in the English game and he should be familiar with who is and who isn't suitable to ply their trade in England. Arsene only started in 96/97.

Unknown said...

Actually, Wenger never intended to buy Wright. He went on holiday in the summer, came back, and whoa! Richard Wright is in his squad.


vincent said...

you know guys, this actually makes a great debate piece. thanks for the good stuffs.

btw...forlan was another shitty luck signing. he was great for indepiente (or however the hell u spell it). he came to manyoo and had a horrible time. and now look what happened after he left?

sashi said...


The last thing I want to do is stick up for old Fergie, but, sigh.

When I said: "Ferguson can be proud of his record compared to Wenger's", I was referring to his trophy successes, not transfer record.

And you mention that "Ferguson has almost 20 years experience in the English game" while Wenger "Arsene only started in 96/97." Well, in that case, it's kind of unfair to compare their two records in the transfer market, isn't it? Unless you can dredge back Wenger's record back in Monaco or Japan or wherever he was before for the last 20 years.

And another thing: Fergie's transfer turkeys that you mention aren't British, which may mean Fergie couldn't have known how really suited they were (and I have to agree with Vincent that you can't really blame Fergie for Veron and Forlan - top players before coming to Utd, I think they had personal problems fitting in), while Wenger's turkeys are French - he should have known them better, don't ya think?

Naz said...

Ah... Trophy success I did admit was down to the fact that their young ones came together (in a footballing sense, although you never know with Becks and Gary Neville!) towards around 96, and peaked at 98 till around 2002. Of course the purchase of Yorkie and Cole had a lot to do with the 1999 success, but so did the purchase of Henry and Pires for Arsenal in our double winning year. Since then, Arsenal has consistently bought solid players for bargain prices, while Man U reacts to every adverse season with outlandish expenses to see off the challenges of first the Gunners and now Chelsea (and his success pales in comparison as to when he had Becks and Co.) See, the point I was trying to make is, the success ratio for Wenger in the transfer market in comparison to the outlay of expenses is second to none.

As for the French turkeys, I mentioned that they were bought as squad players. And squad players are squad players for a reason which is lack of quality, which Arsene knows, but can fill in at any given time. Who would have thought that Cygan would end up playing left back for our reserve left back, who is incidentally French and could usurp Ashley Cole in the near future, right?

Even if Veron was big name (and I admit I was freaking pissed such a class player went to Man U), but Fergie should have known better shouldn't he? He already had Keane and Scholes who were in the form of their lives. So why waste 28 million on someone who could distrupt one of the most prolific midfield partnerships in history? Tactically, did Veron suit the team at that moment in time? This to me, is a lack of judgement from Ferguson in the transfer market and the needs of the team in recent years. Djemba2 and Kleberson were supposed to take over from Keano, but fast forwad to 2005, he has resorted to using an inconsistent striker to play in Keano's absence. Question marks could also be raised over the purchase of Smithy who never scored more than 12 goals a season.

Anonymous said...

Yup, agreed about Smithy. That didn't make sense unless he was simply drafted in as a squad player (and for a guy who was on the verge of international success, squad status doesn't cut it) - 10 bucks says he won't survive another season. If Leeds return to the top, he might decide to go home.

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